1) Statistically speaking, the level of gun related crime, violence and deaths in the US is very high, even for 300 million people – no other western democracy has such a high rate on a per capita basis.

2) I never said that anyone who owns a gun is a killer, merely that more widely available guns will inevitably lead to a higher rate of gun related crime, violence and deaths, which is a statistical fact.

3) I strongly resent your equation of prostitution with killing people. Prostitutes provide a valuable service to society; guns kill people. Indeed, I strongly suspect that if prostitution was legal in the US as it is in other western democracies, there would actually be less violent crime there – when a man can’t release his sexual urges, he will often turn to violence as an alternative. Besides, the laws in the US don’t make any sense – why is selling sex in front of a camera (hardcore porn) legal, when selling it privately isn’t? And in any case, all women are equipped to be prostitutes simply because they’re women (and all men want sex more than almost all women do), but nobody’s born with a gun!

4) If the US had tighter gun control laws, there would be far less people breaking into other people’s houses at night, as they wouldn’t have ready access to the weapons that allow them to do it. This is a statistical fact too – other western democracies have far lower rates of these crimes than the US.

5) You will actually be safer if somebody breaks into your house if you don’t have a gun anyway! There’s a reason staff at stores and banks are trained not to resist hold-ups: because if you just give them what they want and let them go, you will be far less likely to get hurt than if you resist. Remember, a criminal is far more likely to be skilled with a gun than a normal citizen, and they will normally have the advantage in this sort of situation anyway, as they will obviously have their gun ready to use before you do. Insurance is far better protection for your household items than a gun is.

6) Get over this ridiculous “subjects” ignorance that many conservative Americans have. People in other western democracies have just as much individual rights as Americans do; indeed, since the Patriot act, they actually have a good deal more. You complain about Obama, yet you support the President who did more to take away Americans’ civil rights than any other President in US history!

7) Why are conservative Americans like you so hostile? You call yourself “The Anti-Sachiko”, when all I am doing is expressing concern over the level of gun related violence in the US, and offering a solution to the problem which has been shown to work many times over in other western countries.

Ultimately, one of the reasons I chose to live in Australia rather than the US is that I feel a lot safer here, which the statistics show is actually true. And gun control laws are a very big reason for that.

A question or three. If someone breaks into your house some night, could you defend yourself without a weapon? Do you REALLY think the police will get there in time if you call – that is, if the intruder hasn’t disabled the phone? Are you willing to bet your life for your principles? Just curious.

At any rate, I can assure you we Americans shall never do away with our Second Amendment rights. As a nation, we are citizens, not subjects as in the UK/Australia. Americans’ trust in government to protect us has never been that great and the antics of the Obama regime certainly have not increased the level of trust. So why don’t you worry about your life in Australia and we’ll take care of things here in the USA.

You are one well informed person. Thank you for the very interesting comments.

Gun Control
Immigration reform
Spending Analysis of less than 0.2% of the entire budget
Abortion/Women’s Rights/Stem Cells
Creationism vs Secularism in everything
Violent Video Games/Movies/Media
Regulation of Adult Activities and Entertainment
Regulation/Usage of recreational narcotics/Enforcement/Enactment of laws on products.

These successfully divide the public into a frothy media driven furvor, with very little real (accurate and relevant) information being dissemenated by either sides of the “arguement”. It bogs down the congressional process, and fills hours of radio/TV/internet components. However, the end result is that none of the underlying issues actually get addressed.

Take the Piracy issue unfolding before us right now:
US does dramatic rescue, France does dramatic rescue, Warlord/Terrorist factions declare “revenge”, US Congressman attempting to work with Somali “government” gets shot at, except incompetence of pirate mortar operators miss/overshoot/undershoot airport and airport runway entirely and instead injure 18 and kill 9 civillians in a nearby squatter “village” locations around the airport.

Most likely this will result in a “War on Piracy” which will be added to the rest of the “Wars on insert hot topic of today that will last forever”. However it won’t address shipping policies, manifesting issues, smuggling, issues of contraband, world wide discrepancies in resource allocation, international company policies, the reason for Somalia’s failed nation status, nor much of anything else. The reasons for the piracy still exist, there are still 12 other ship crews (230 sailors) being held by the pirates, and asking for a combined 270 million dollars for the release of these crews and ships.

I guess the real answer to your question as posed at the top of this long commentary “What will it take to have gun control in the US?” is:
When the American people feel that people in authority won’t take advantage of them, the moment that they disarm themselves.
I mean that is the original movement that got most of the people over to America in the first place. French Huegenots, Protestants, Mormon’s, Irish, even the slaves came over (obviously unwillingly!) because they were essentially sold by their own people to white slave traders for trinkets. Italians, Jews, Gypsies, Eastern Europeans, Latin Americans, South Americans, in fact hundreds of thousands of people each year apply for Asylum to the US, and many thousands of them are taken in due to fear of persecution/execution in their home country. Each wave of immigrants to the US has been essentially fleeing the ravages of whatever country they were from originally.

In my community alone, I can go to a grocery store and meet people from 48 different ethnic, cultural and racial groups.
My town isn’t giant, (320,000 people in the entire county, and 240,000 in the largest 2 two cities separated by a river) but with the university, community college, the agricultural communities and a wierd mix of liberal conservatism these different groups exist relatively crime free. When I mean relatively crime free, I mean individual burglaries and minor fights make it to page 2 in the regional newspaper, and the death rate from ANY violent source for the whole state is like 700 per year. The 4-6 gun deaths per year in my town are usually related to cop/criminal interactions.
However, we have 10 shooting ranges, a military surplus store, and many stores devoted to hunting (bow/crossbow, shotgun, musket, rifle, pistol), and many gun collectors/enthuiasts. Most of the immigrants are eligible and do have an interest in purchasing personal firearms.

Again I personally don’t want a hand gun, and haven’t handled any gun in over 20 years, except an air pistol, interestingly enough in an archery/shooting range in Singapore of all places!

The real issue that affect the people will affect the will of the people to remove guns from the culture. In fact during the economic boom from 1995-2000, gun ownership went down nearly 2%, but with the .com bust, 9-11, and the wonderful paranoid culture of the past 8 years, gun ownership went back up 3%. Now due to the right wing radio broadcasts, that Obama is going to be a “gun grabber”, gun sales have spiked.

I guess America isn’t ready to give up the gun, but overall we have a death by gun average rate per capita within the ranges of the top 25 industrialized countries, and between 1/7 to 1/12 what even the most violent small failed states have.

Guess where the next wave of refugees seeking asylum are going to come from. Guess which country will probably approve the largest numbers of these asylum seekers. Guess who the next wave of gun owners are going to be voting against gun controls.

I would also like to know if there is a term in Political Science(not my area of expertise) that describes nonissues(from a relatively pragmatic standpoint) which politicians seize upon to divert attention away from real world problem issues which they are too lazy or stupid to, get paid not to, or refuse to deal with for whatever reason.

Originally Posted By Robert
I wish we could hear more comments on this subject from people outside the USA.

Yes – I think it’s telling that the one person who agrees with me here is also the only non-American!

However the summary is just a page or 2 (included below):

Under federal law supported by the National Rifle Association, the use of a firearm in a violent or drug-trafficking crime is punishable by a mandatory prison sentence of up to 20 years. A second conviction, if the firearm is a machine gun or is equipped with a silencer, brings life imprisonment without release. Violating firearms laws should lead to very real punishment for violent criminals, but the laws first must be enforced.

Ineligible Persons

The following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:

Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less.
Fugitives from justice.
Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs.
Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution.
Illegal aliens.
Citizens who have renounced their citizenship.
Those persons dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces.
Persons less than 18 years of age for the purchase of a shotgun or rifle.
Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.
Persons subject to a court order that restrains such persons from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner.
Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition. Under limited conditions, relief from disability may be obtained from the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, or through a pardon, expungement, restoration of rights, or setting aside of a conviction.

Acquiring Firearms

The following restrictions apply to firearms acquired through purchase, trade, receipt of gifts, or by other means.

From Dealers

Provided that federal law and the laws of both the dealer`s and purchaser`s states and localities are complied with:

An individual 21 years of age or older may acquire a handgun from a dealer federally licensed to sell firearms in the individual`s state of residence
An individual 18 years of age or older may purchase a rifle or shotgun from a federally licensed dealer in any state
It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer a firearm unless the federal firearms licensee receives notice of approval from a prescribed source approving the transfer.

Sale of a firearm by a federally licensed dealer must be documented by a federal form 4473, which identifies and includes other information about the purchaser, and records the make, model, and serial number of the firearm. Sales to an individual of multiple handguns within a five-day period require dealer notification to the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Violations of dealer record keeping requirements are punishable by a penalty of up to $1000 and one year`s imprisonment.

Sales Between Individuals

An individual who does not possess a federal firearms license may not sell a firearm to a resident of another state without first transferring the firearm to a dealer in the purchaser`s state. Firearms received by bequest or intestate succession are exempt from those sections of the law which forbid the transfer, sale, delivery or transportation of firearms into a state other than the transferor`s state of residence.

Temporary use of Another`s Firearm

Provided that all other laws are complied with, an individual may temporarily borrow or rent a firearm for lawful sporting purposes throughout the United States.

Antiques

Antique firearms and replicas are exempted from the aforementioned restrictions. Antique firearms are defined as: any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898, and any replica of a firearm as designed above if the replica is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire ammunition, or uses fixed ammunition, which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels or commercial trade, any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. (Note: Antiques exemptions vary considerably under state laws.)

Shipping Firearms

Firearms may not be mailed or shipped interstate from one non-FFL to another non-FFL. Personally owned rifles and shotguns may be mailed or shipped to an FFL in any state for any lawful purpose, including sale, repair, or customizing. An FFL may ship a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received. Under U.S. Postal regulations, handguns may be sent via the Postal Service only from one FFL to another FFL, or between authorized government officials.

A person may ship a rifle or shotgun to himself, in care of a person who lives in another state, for purposes of hunting.

Firearms or ammunition delivered to a common carrier for shipment must be accompanied by a written notice to the carrier of the contents of the shipment.

Transporting Firearms During Travel

A provision of federal law serves as a defense to state or local laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate travel.

Notwithstanding any state or local law, a person shall be entitled to transport a firearm from any place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm if the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

Federal law prohibits the carrying of any firearm, concealed or unconcealed, on or about the person or in carry-on baggage while aboard an aircraft.The Transportation Security Administration(TSA) has established certain requirements for transporting firearms and ammunition. Firearms must be carried in a locked hard sided case. Ammunition must be declared and can be transported in checked baggage or in the same container as the firearm as long the firearm is unloaded.

Any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce must deliver the unloaded firearm into custody of the pilot, captain, conductor, or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip.

Ammunition

As with firearms, shipments of ammunition must be accompanied by a written notice of the shipment`s contents. It is unlawful for any licensed importer, dealer, manufacturer or collector to transfer shotgun or rifle ammunition to anyone under the age of 18, or any handgun ammunition to anyone under the age of 21.

It is illegal to manufacture or sell armor-piercing handgun ammunition.

Dealers

Persons who engage in the business of buying or selling firearms must be licensed by the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives of the U.S. Department of Justice. A special class of “licensed collectors” provides for the purchase and sale of firearms designated by the BATFE as “curios and relics.” Class III dealers may sell fully-automatic firearms manufactured prior to May 19, 1986, and other federally registered firearms and devices restricted under Title II of the Gun Control Act, to individuals who obtain approval from the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury after payment of a tax and clearance following a criminal background check.

Violations of restrictions on Title II firearms and devices are punishable by a penalty of up to $10,000 and 10 years imprisonment.